August 8, 1974
Published in Sant Bani Magazine, May-June 1996
Questions and Answers from August 8, 1974. Reprinted from Sat Sandesh, April 1976.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes, any one of you?
Disciple: After the Darshan tonight, may I see you privately for about three minutes Your Holiness?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: As long as there is breath, why not? You are welcome. I’m afraid you’ll leave here soon?
Disciple: Tomorrow night — midnight.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: [To another disciple] You are going on the same unit, too?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Time and tide wait for no man. Flies on like anything. Here fifteen minutes is a long time with His Grace. Which of the two times are better?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Which of the two tunes are better: the time of waiting or the time of departure?
Disciple: The time of waiting.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes. There may be some chance. God willing, of course.
Disciple: Some chance of what, Sir?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Meeting.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes, we might, God willing.
Disciple: I’ll be glad to wait.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Otherwise, I am in the evening of my life — not the day. His Grace is above.
Disciple: Could be for both of us.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Ohnjee — maybe. [Chuckles] All right, any questions?
Disciple: I don’t have any questions.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: I think you remember the event of Birbal the minister?
Disciple: Yes, Sir.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Do you remember the reason I go into it?
Disciple: Not to think evil of others.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: It so happened that the other ministers complained against Birbal. Birbal, one of the ministers of Akbar the Great, was very jolly, very dutiful. So one day all the other ministers complained, “Birbal is of a low nature. He seems to be from a family of low consciousness. But, you give him very much respect here in court.” The King replied, “If you want to judge, you can go and see for your own self.” “All right, but how can you judge all this?” So a minister went to Birbal in the evening and told him, ‘The King will come to see you. He’ll challenge you, but we pay obeisance, respect to him. When he asks about the family, this and that thing, after four, five, ten minutes remain silent. Then whatever he questions, don’t reply.”
When the King came to judge Birbal, he went on questioning one, two, three, four. Then after ten minutes, one more question, “Look here, Birbal, if we meet some foolish man, what should we do?” “We should keep silent,’”replied Birbal. You see? He was not educated. [He was a] very ordinary person. What should he do for one salient point — silence?
Now come up with your view. [All chuckle] Is it not? Yes, go on — talk. You are welcome.
Disciple: Excuse me, your Holiness. Is it better sometimes to become so absorbed within the Master’s eyes and in His face and see the transfiguration of His face than sometimes to listen to what He says. When the Master is speaking at the time of Darshan, sometimes one gets absorbed into Your eyes that they forget everything. They don’t even hear what Your Holiness is saying and no one else seems to be about.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: What can be spoken in silence cannot be spoken through words. You see.
Disciple: Ahchah — Thank you.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Silence is always golden. So eyes are the windows of the soul. Eyes are the windows of the soul. Drink deeply into it. This is what is wanted, you see. Once Christ gave out in a direct way that He was Word Made Flesh. Later on He said, “All right, eat me and drink me.” They were wondering how to eat him and drink him, forgetting that He said that He was the Word made flesh.
Disciple: In the same Chapter?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes. So eyes are the windows of the soul. If you are absorbed there, that’s all right. Metaphorically [speaking], Guru Nanak once told the disciples to eat one dead body which was lying with at cloth over it. “Eat the dead body?” [Master makes a face and imitates Guru Nanak’s disciples with an undertone, “Eat a dead body?”] Then when the second Guru, about to obey, took off the cloth, there was candy. This is metaphorical, you see.
So eyes are on the highest level. They do the highest work. They can convey the message without talking. The mind mingles with the heart. You understand better through eyes than from anybody speaking. So that Science is very definite. To withdraw into the radiation of the eyes is a stepping stone into the higher level. It is better still to go up. Forget the eyes once you are in the know.
In the old days there were different ways of conveying messages. The student had four classes: Primary Class, Middle Class — all the way up. So this is something of the college class. Master’s face is a new sort of absorption. Eating and drinking eyes is of college teaching. Once I remember our Master was sitting. Just as I came in he said, “Sit by me, speak something.” I always talked to him about what was on my mind, and the people were hearing all.
Once I said, “In Swami Ji’s time, there were Sikh customs. Masters used to sit in front. You could look — eyes into eyes — forgetting everything.” Later on when they used to meet the Master, they looked — begged like that and looked. [Master gestured with hands beneath the eyes.] You see?
Sometimes they bent down to the feet of the Master. He would say, “I’m here, never mind [my feet], I’m here. [Master points to his eyes] Look up here.” Then the people, old people there, began to cry, “Why don’t you let us touch your feet now?” The Master replied, “I think this is a higher class: the eyes. It is for those who rise above body consciousness.”
But we are stuck fast in the body. The love or attachment that starts in flesh and ends in flesh is lust. These attachments that start through [the] body, stay in the body alone. Rise above body through the eyes. Spirit is not in the body, but in the eyes. But those who’ve got no devotion, turn away.
Our Master used to say, the hungry calf went to the cow and the mother let go of the milk. [The calf] could drink more.
The others were ticks on the breast sucking blood. So long as you are in the flesh and blood, the eyes are a stepping stone for our training. I never advise anybody [to visualize]. The learned people advise this, to visualize Master’s form, I never did.
Disciple: Would you go over that just one more time?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes. Almost all Masters, when they initiate, say to just visualize the Master’s form. I never did, you see. And some 20%, 40%, 50%, 60% see. Why do they tell this? Number one: this gives you a stillness for a while. However, you can visualize a man who is up to your level, but you cannot visualize those who are above that level, that’s all. They get some little stillness, that’s all right. But that’s not all of it.
So God is one who comes from above. When you enter the room where one is sitting, whether you visualize him before entering or not, you’ll find him there. At initiation, He is embedded.
To visualize is very dangerous. If you visualize somebody, you become what he is. Nobody guides us. Meets us. So that is why I don’t say visualize. I don’t say to visualize me. Others do, I think. They visualize form from portraits. There are many things to be learned, self-evident truths. They are all rambling there about, crying: “Why, why, why don’t we find peace?” Why? Don’t visualize.
That’s why we find many are stuck fast. Instead of going higher, they are stuck. These things are not given out in books — not in the same way. A rare gift.
Eyes speak through eyes to you who sit inside. Is it not so? Only then you’ll understand. You’ll have constant company of the Master by physical presence or by developing receptivity. When nothing remains between you and Him, you are receptive. Then and only then you can have constant company of the Master.
But all the same if you are visualizing the Master only as physical man and are only attached to the physical body and other things, this is wrong.
Disciple: Some people might be in a car. They imagine that You are also riding along and talk out loud. Is there any benefit in that? Imaginary . . .
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: It comes of itself. That comes of itself.
Disciple: But they are imagining it . . .
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: That comes of itself. It is vivid.
Disciple: I don’t understand.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Sometimes people see vividly, sometimes only in feelings.
Disciple: If it’s feelings though . . .
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: If you are feeling, then naturally it is better to move higher. That [feeling] is only up to the physical level. Kabir says, “If you take Him only as a man, you will go down to hell again and again.” They who are not conversant with the teachings cannot give out, because they are binding you. For that your intellect will be burnt. They won’t help.
Moreover, you are dealing in diamonds. Put your attention in there. You’ll find more.
By putting in time daily, you’ll find more. By putting in time daily, you’ll move higher and go . . . So you really become an initiate when you find and talk to Master within at your will.
Disciple: Could you repeat that last statement?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: When you have a heart to heart talk with Him whenever you like. Close your eyes. Master will come. It requires practice.
Disciple: But not imagination?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: No, no, no. Imagination is of your own make. So that is why I say, “Don’t visualize anything. Don’t premeditate.” Even then some men do begin to initiate.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Some people do begin to initiate and people say that he is the Guru.
Disciple: I’ve heard about that.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Through hearsay?
Disciple: Yes. Some people say that they have seen the Master alive in front of them.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes, that can be.
Disciple: Yes, that can be also.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Why can’t he do it? In the microscope we see even the atmosphere is full of microbes. We have microbes everywhere.
Disciple: Beloved, I heard a story that Your Holiness was in America in 1955 and You were giving a Satsang, and at the same time You were giving Satsang here in India. Thousands of people saw You.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes, that story is true.
Disciple: Well, they want to know whether they can see You on the outside and whether You are able to be in more places than one.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Word is Guru!
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: The word made Flesh. That’s what I tell you, that’s all. They have seen me in astral.
Disciple: Then there’s the story of my brother who is not a practicing Satsangi. After leaving a cafeteria, he drove away in his car. Another car driven by a man intoxicated with liquor came at my brother with such a force. My brother asked me, “Is it possible that I can see the Master standing in front of me?” And I said, “Yes, why not?” He said, “You know, like this picture?” I said, “Yes, why not.” “Well,” he said, “that’s what happened. Master loomed up in front of me and both the cars stopped.”
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: That saved him.
Disciple: So, there is proof there. There’s proof. There it is.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Grace can be extended. Sometimes the car is upturned and nobody is hurt, like in that story. That Master Power is always overhead. We have no faith in the Master like a child has faith in his Mother.
Disciple: Today, Father, we had to go out on an errand. All of a sudden there was a terrible accident. One car hit another car and it turned over. Immediately I was saying the charged words with full power. And our driver went over to see what happened. He came back and said not much harm was done. The driver of that car got hurt a little here [pointing to his shoulder] when he was thrown out of the car. The power of your charging the Words, I know, saved a lot of trouble there.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Others may, or may not believe you, but it is a fact.
Disciple: It’a a fact. Yes, thank you, Satguru.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: So by spirituality you begin to understand everything in quite natural like, heart-to-heart talks. Our Master used to talk very simply with due reverence for all. I always used to sit at the back of Satsang. Generally rich people stood in the front, right in front. One day one advocate who came to talk to me came in and sat by me. I told him, “Your seat is in front.” “Look here,” he replied, “I see Master from here. Master’s eyes always look at me.” The more receptive we are the more we get. Everybody gets that.
Disciple: Many have seen the Master becoming like Guru Nanak and some have seen the Master becoming as our grandfather Hazur.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: That very power, comes through the different human poles. When Guru Nanak once left the body, he blossomed. When they wept, he simply said, “Look here, if a friend of yours goes away and comes in one robe today and another robe another day . . . clothes may be changed, but THAT won’t.” These are very delicate points not explained, you see. People have already known some experience of this practically. So as I told you spirituality starts only from “ABC.” All right, come on. Yes?
Disciple: Master, is there any thing that we can do consciously to prolong the effect of the radiation that we get in Master’s physical presence?
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: By receptivity have it all the time. Not prolonged, but all the time.
Disciple: We shouldn’t miss it.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes. Microscope it. Don’t be led away by the outward show. Our Master used to give a very good example of this one painting which had very good form, natural scenery, birds and everything. But when you saw the other side, there was nothing — appeared to be nothing. From the back there is nothing. When you have a microscope, it is quite different. Such a man can save you, but not others. When they rise up to That, they can satisfy you. Suppose you have any points, bring them to be satisfied.
Disciple: All right, thank you, Sir.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: When the child enters the school, it is a training ground. He is shown to write ABC, then he can write [in] script. Similarly that state may be felt when you go up. That is why further guidance is required. You are most fortunate. Others are not. In heart-to-heart talks you’ll find many things He says in public are not said in books. But that is not all. There is still more. Yes?
Disciple: Satguru, when one feels Your Holiness, Your Presence, all the time and they don’t feel the pangs of separation, but they feel your powerful presence at all time . . .
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: That’s a relationship between you and Him — not for everybody.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: I’ll tell you why. It is a gift. You would not like all the worldly love to be known by anybody. Why do you let them . . . let others know [to say] “God is Guru?” Excuse me if I say so.
In the beginning when I went to my Master, people asked me, “How great is your Guru?” I replied, “That much I know, He is far, far above what I need. Of that much I can be certain. When he speaks of God . . . He must be Guru. Something [in me] knows about God in him.”
And the people judged by His Grace. I hope you remember his advice. That is why I say, “Let them find out for themselves.”
Disciple: Yes, Master.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: To tell lies for the proof of the Master’s greatness is wrong. If people see, that’s all right. Say as much as you know.
Disciple: Lies are lies.
Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: Yes. They deceive others with your very Life Force. I’ve not written these things in books. Everybody can have That. It is not for any privileged sect. The door is opened for anybody.
Once our Master was at the railroad station and there was one Christian who detained him on the way. “Look here, is Christ greater or is your guru greater? Who is greater?” Our Master replied, “The Christ I have not seen physically, but my Guru I have seen. If you bring both together, I will tell you.”
They are one in two and two in one. Those who have known, they say like that. These are comparisons. Let others say who is greater. This is for those who are attentive, I would say. They will get It.
At first I had trouble at previous conferences and developing [the] Man Center (Manav Kendra). But they all are coming together now in Love of God. All sons together, all sitting together. This is His work. Now they intend to have an Asian Conference. So this is the only remedy for all the ills of the day.
All right. It is your food time. Now. Go eat, and God bless you. All right.
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