December 11, 1972

Published in Sant Bani Magazine, February 1978

A television interview with Maharaj Kirpal Singh Ji in Mexico City, Dec. 11, 1972

Question: Master, we would like to ask you if you are in accordance with the opinion of Pope Paul?

Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: What is his opinion?

Question: That the devil is the cause of all the ills and badness in the world.

Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: The truth remains that God made the universe. There are two aspects: one is going into expression, the other is receding back. The word Brahm is used to mean the Power going into expression, which is the cause of all expression in the universe. This is called “negative.” The other Power is “positive,” which brings back souls to God. The Power going into expression is called by some as “Satan” or “Devil”; it is called by the Rishis as Brahm. These are two Powers made by God just as electricity somewhere burns fire and somewhere congeals water into ice. The Power is the same, but it has two expressions: one going into expression, the other receding back. Had there been no Power going into expression called Brahm, there would have been no world whatsoever. That Brahm has the law, “As you sow, so shall you reap.” That Brahm Power is very just. Naturally, the incarnations of Brahm, when they come into the world, their job is just to punish the wicked, uphold the righteous, and set the world going. This matter is very intricate, I tell you. Further, I will just give an example: The King is the appointing authority of the Commander-in-Chief; he is also the appointing authority of the Viceroy. The two work for the sake of the King; it is the King who has given them power. But their work is different. When a city is in trouble, the civil officers hand it over to the military. What do they do? They punish the wicked, fire and kill some, save hundreds of the righteous. When it is in order, they hand it back to the civil.

[The television commentator tries to move on to the next question, but the Master says:

This is not the end-all. There are some things further to be explained, a few words more, if you want full; if you want half a reply, it is up to you. This will go to the world population, you see. Now we are responsible.]

The Commander-in-Chief knows fully well that he has been given power by the King by which he destroys, he kills, etc., etc., but still he never says, “I convey to you the orders of the King.” It is the incarnations of the Positive Power who say like that; they are the Saints. Those who come like the Commander-in-Chief, they say, “I order – fire! “ Different expressions, but both at heart know that they have got this power from God. This is done only so that the Word can go into expression; otherwise there would be no world. So our own actions and reactions bring on these things – all the troubles, killings, this and that. As the incarnations of the Positive Power, the Saints look after the souls and take them back to God.

The world never ends. It goes on changing from Kali Yuga or Iron Age to Golden Age. The Negative Power goes on punishing, to set the world right and let it keep going – not to depopulate, but so that it can continue to go on. And the Positive works to take our souls back to God. They work for the good of the righteous people.

Mind is the Negative Power working within each man. Its work is always to keep you away from God – to keep you awake in the world. So naturally punishment is there; killing is there; wars are there; sometimes plagues are there. These are functions of the Negative Power and come first; then the righteous people will come up. The Golden Age arises from the Iron Age – it won’t fall down from Heaven all at once. So awakening is there, east and west both. People are fed up with all these things and they want the way out; the other way is what is wanted. The Negative Power is very equal: he does not spare the incarnations of the Negative Power even. He is also punishing the Negative. For instance:

Rama killed the brother of Ravana. Then Rama came in an incarnation as Lord Krishna. Then that man who had been killed came as a dacoit in the wilderness and killed Krishna. He came to Krishna and said, “Well, I have done wrong.” But he said, “No, no, I killed you.” So he does not spare even the incarnations, you see. The day of judgment is individual and also as a whole, as a class.

The other part, I tell you – the world is now entered in its changing from cycle to cycle. The Rishis say that four trillion years may bring the world to its end. The world is not going to end but change – for the better.

If the judgment as a whole comes, the land will slide, the water will come up, but the righteous men will be saved. Two or three years back, somebody wrote me from America: “The continent will be under water and people running to the hills. What is your opinion?” I told him no such thing would happen. Don’t worry. If it comes, fix your faith, for already we have it. So mark my words. The day of judgment is for each individual and for classes also: Vietnam and other things are going on, but righteous people are also going on.

Question: What is the meaning of “Science of the Soul?”

Sant Kirpal Singh Ji: The science of the soul is God’s work. We are souls under the control of the Negative Power. So incarnations of the Positive Power come to save them and bring them back to God. The other day in my talk I said that there should be no revolution of the body – not the body – but of the evil propensities of the mind – that which takes man away from God. There should be a spiritual revolution, and that is going on. I replied to this question in my talk day before yesterday – everybody is now getting such an experience openly, to save, at large.

Awakening is going on all around, in the east and west. That means the Golden Age is arising from the Iron Age, and the Science of the Soul is for that.

All right; thank you for your cooperation. The real Life is going on, with God’s grace… Well, it is – those who are wicked are punished; it is a probation, you see. I told you in my talk the other day that a spiritual revolution is going on now. The righteous will find that this is not the revolution of the body, but of the evil propensities of the mind. Mind is the slave of the Negative Power. Had there been no Negative Power, there would have been no world whatsoever.